| ||||
| ||||
| Moderated by: Joe Kelley |
|
||||||||||||||
| Daily Paul | Rate Topic |
| Author | Post |
|---|
| Posted: Fri Mar 29th, 2013 12:56 pm |
|
1st Post |
|
Joe Kelley Administrator
|
bear, I keep getting "Validation Error" messages when I try to reply on the Big Lie thread. So this is my attempt to get around that road block. "My fellow juror, how then do we decide on punishment and not become that which we abhor?" If the sentence is nothing more than a guilty verdict, that is fine with me, but is it a good idea to keep paying these criminals their "retirement" income, including any tax breaks from other incomes not available to the people who actually earn income? What happens if a fellow juror refuses to listen to reason, in any case? At least the trial is shown on The Alex Jones Show, or, does Alex then show his true colors too, and refuse to broadcast the discoveries found in the official manner of discovering the legally authoritative version of the facts? If all that due process is merely evil, as in Men are Bad, then why keep paying so much to the most evil among us? Why call it tax, when it is merely investing all the good stuff that can be produced, by all us evil humans, into turning that good stuff into evil stuff instead? If the idea is to be good, how can you, or I, in good conscience, work another minute to produce another kilowatt/hour worth of anything good, when doing so ends up painting a target on our backs, for those people to collect on their Golden Parachutes, for serving evil so well? Trial by Jury, not perfect, by any means, could conceivably, at least, shine the light on the worst among us, so as to warn others as to what can be expected when those worst among us knock on the door. "If someone cannot testify against themselves, perhaps that was supposed to alleviate confession torture?" I think a huge problem, a problem I am just now discussing with my cousin Mike on my forum, has to do with any residual credit given to Legal Criminals, where no such credit has been earned, where in fact the opposite is true. What is the opposite of credit? So The Constitution Usurpation was the problem of the day, and a fix to that problem was these Bills of Rights, including that Fifth Amendment. What can anyone make of such a thing? I think it may be a good idea to judge the situation for what it was, not what we may want to to have been, and it is a compromise to Liberty, and who, on what end, forces such a compromise in any case whatsoever? That brings us back to the question of who is the boss. You have goodness in God on your side, teaching you to avoid being that which you supposedly abhor, refusing to join the criminals, refusing to be one, and in that, to me, includes not abandoning the victims. You make as good a boss as any other human being, for those reasons. Who do you elect to be above you in this authority to do good, for you, where you are not available, or capable, where you are, alone, and powerless, in any case whatsoever? "...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..." Why is it, in my travels, the case, always it seems to me, unless you can come up with one, whereby proponents of The Constitution end up referring to The Declaration of Independence, or The Bill of Rights, when crediting this Constitution with so much goodness? Is that a clue? What is this due process stuff if it is not a means by which the powerless victims are not abandoned and left to be tortured, and be murdered, in masses, in churches, by people collecting National Debt? Waco, for example, was a tax collecting operation, in case you did not catch that fact in The Big Lie effort to inform those who are next. "So what is the deal with people having to sign confessions under lengthy police interrogations?" So...put on your juror hat. What is due process? Who is due process for and be precise if possible, please. "You know, the kind you see on TV…good cop, bad cop." Here is a fairly large myth, it seems to me, as to what due process is, in fact, and what is the opposite, and again I think we can spell this out in a math problem. Common Law - Admiralty Law = Legal Crime Common Law, or Natural Law, includes the concept of a process that is due to everyone without exception. Does that sound reasonable to anyone, without exception? If there is an exception, what is reasonable to that person, and would that person actually tell the truth or could you expect, trust, that the exceptions are exceptions because they lie so well? Predictably. What is the purpose of this or that television show dealing with cops? I saw a show on yesterday, a show that I would not watch on my own, I have my own preferences for things on television, but I was not controlling the channeling device. A family swaps a wife with another family. You can see red now, if I know you well enough, but it becomes even more clearly a case of willful intent to modify behavior, to me, as I watch. A religious family send a bible thumping religious person, dressed provocatively, at least I thought she looked very attractive, as if that was the intent, to be attractive, but this person, in this counterfeit way, it seems to me, represents Christians. You probably didn't watch the show. The Christian swaps a wife from a family where the wife is married to the dad, and has herself a wife, it seems, I'm not sure, but dad was holding the hands of the wife who was swapped, and holding hands with a younger, more attractive woman, who was, apparently, the lesbian lover of the wife, and who knows what else, but I have an active imagination, so I guess, and meanwhile, since now I know a true Christian, and I have a basic idea of true Christian, and so I can see this situation from a less vulgar viewpoint, not merely my own viewpoint, but I can borrow the true Christian viewpoint, despite my tendencies to be a vulgar child-like adult. Something here appears to be premeditated, as if to say, hey, it is OK to be anything you want, do anything you want, whenever you want, be free, and don't listen to those Christians, they are hypocrites. I'm thinking that Television is Monopolized, a tool, a very destructive one, when there is no competition. Now there is competition, and so the Monopoly Message can be left behind, is being left behind, but the damage has been done: more torches of freedom. Please excuse the wandering so far off topic, I hope my report does not disturb you too much. "It was a theatrical production as far as I was concerned. A mockery. A case of is is." No need to elaborate, but my point was to point out a specific command of power. If you had none, that is the point. If you had power, but did not utilize it, then that is the point. If you had power, abused it, then that would be the point. If you know what I mean, since you were on a Jury, then consider how someone not ever on a Jury may be considering the concept based upon no experience other than hearsay. I hear people say a lot of things when considering Jury Duty.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 4th, 2013 08:20 pm |
|
2nd Post |
|
bear Guest
|
I did not know you were speaking to me here. I am sorry. Do you want me to talk to you here instead of there?
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Apr 5th, 2013 10:07 am |
|
3rd Post |
|
Joe Kelley Administrator
|
There is potentially more readers, here is less error messages and trouble posting messages. I only posted that here because I wanted a place to copy and paste the response I wrote at the time I ran into that error message. I like engaging with larger numbers of people on busy forums because there is a perception that expands into a wider range. Fishing for competitive angles of view in my pool in the backyard compares to fishing in a mountain stream?
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Apr 5th, 2013 11:37 am |
|
4th Post |
|
bear Guest
|
OK, I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track. Good plan to paste here when error is there. That way your words are saved! You could even type here and then paste there! I am getting ready to add a quote to your 2013 quotes. Today is a beautiful day and I am going to work in the yard. The sky is blue and the sun is shining!
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2013 11:37 am |
|
5th Post |
|
Joe Kelley Administrator
|
bear, I remember a good quote from a book written by Albert J. Nock. The quote had to do with an answer to the question concerning what an individual can do against the POWER of crime made legal. I think the words went something like: "Present society with an improved example." If you can enjoy life, without resorting to crime, then who can ask for more?
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2013 01:51 pm |
|
6th Post |
|
bear Guest
|
I had a thought today about Crime and the Crime perpetrated on the Russian people by Western Financial Interests or should I call them Legal Criminals? Anyways it has to do with bourgeoisie and proletariat class struggle. Could it be that the western financial interests wanted the eastern financial interests wiped clean from the competitive financial market so that the western financial interests could dominate that market and they did that thru involuntary socialism? That would mean that the western financial interests used the east European proletariat to exploit the east European bourgeoisie so that the western bourgeoisie could have dominion or at least no competition. Do you think that is crazy to connect the dots that way? And if not, then Marx's theory that the poletariate are exploited by the bourgeoisie has a double implication...that being that there is always a bourgeoisie pulling the strings of class struggle to remain on top and the poletariate are but one of the strings. ... Last edited on Wed Apr 10th, 2013 01:54 pm by |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 11th, 2013 11:13 am |
|
7th Post |
|
Joe Kelley Administrator
|
"Do you think that is crazy to connect the dots that way?" No, I am now seeing that same dot connecting (or similar dot connecting) as I read Sergey's Russian History. Please do me a favor in your use of the words proletariat and bourgeoisie: explain what those words mean. As in: "That would mean that the western financial interests (Legal Criminals) used the east European proletariat (non-tax payers) to exploit the east European bourgeoisie (tax payers) so that the western bourgeoisie (tax payers) could have dominion or at least no competition." I find those terms to be misleading, ambiguous, and even willfully deceptive. I prefer to measure people and then place people in groups based upon their capacity to produce more at the end of the day then what existed at the beginning of the day, and that "class" of people constitute the source of economic power, and therefore that "class" of people are the targets that are targeted by any criminal "class" of people. It is also understandable, measurable, and accurately measurable, to note that those who do produce more than they have are honest and equitable people, for the POWER required to access division of labor, specialization, and economies of scale, is TRUST.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Thu Apr 11th, 2013 12:11 pm |
|
8th Post |
|
bear Guest
|
Joe, I only use those big words because Marx used them. Really I don't know what them mean. I figure you do. The only way I know what they mean is by looking them up in wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletariat#Usage_in_Marxist_theory The term proletariat is used in Marxist theory to name the social class that does not have ownership of the means of production and whose only means of subsistence is to sell their labour power[9] for a wage or salary. and then when I say "bourgeoisie," I just mean the opposite of proletariat because in my understanding they are the supposed enemy. I in all my life have never been concerned with who has what or what class I or they are in. I suppose I am to stupid. I only know when I perceive that certain people make me feel like I am less than they are. I don't like that feeling, but I suppose it cannot be helped because I cannot change what other people think of me based upon how much I have or don't have. The only think I can offer is kindness and generosity, but sometimes I offer my absence. I am not interested in being in a class struggle with anyone. But in the layer behind the onion skin that I peered behind yesterday, what I saw is that certain people use or create that struggle to gain dominance at the expense of both classes who are struggling against one another. I suppose if the 2 fight against each other, the 3rd remains untouched but gains power in the depletion of the power of the 2 that are caused to fight against one another. Like watching a cock fight. One dies, The other may get injured and the owner of the winner gets the prize while all the cock gets is fed to fight another time. Both the winning owner and cock get to "strut." ... Last edited on Thu Apr 11th, 2013 12:12 pm by |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2013 09:30 am |
|
9th Post |
|
Joe Kelley Administrator
|
bear, Please let me know what you think about the latest Reality Television shows where groups of people are fighting each other to gain some form of reward. Survivor Big Brother Bachelor Bachelaorette If you have not watched them, then your measure of them is going to be absent the data required to make an accurate assessment. Other programs include those Wife Swap Reality Television Shows I've reported to you. The concept of finding ways to take the earnings from the earners includes the tactic of Hegelism, or Divide and Conquer, or Thesis - Antithesis = Synthesis. How many ways can a person figure out, while using deception, while using threats of violence, and by using violence upon the innocent, to get those honest people to fight among themselves instead of allowing those honest people to be exactly what they would be without such effort expended on manufacturing dictatorial behavior?
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2013 07:30 pm |
|
10th Post |
|
bear Guest
|
Joe,bear, My honest assessment of those shows, which I have not watched in about 8 or more years, are that they are scripted, made-for-public-consumption, Hegelian dialect, social agenda shows. Picture the soap operas. We all knew that is “acting” and following a script. Reality TV seem like the same thing to me except the actors are acting like they are themselves. They are entertaining. I like watching interactions between people. However, I believe they put forth the power of suggestion to mold a public in a certain way. A lot of the content. I think the shows contain some of the most naturally horrible examples of human behavior that humans are capable without going to murder and torture. I am not speaking of any of the positive stuff. Just negative. But those very things are exhibited in the emotional displays. The attitudes of murder and torture and hate are there. This scripture comes to mind: 2 Timothy 2:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, high minded , lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away As a lover of God, I cannot honestly feast my eyes on those shows even though they bring me sensual pleasure. Why should I want to watch people: How many ways can a person figure out, while using deception, while using threats of violence, and by using violence upon the innocent, to get those honest people to fight among themselves instead of allowing those honest people to be exactly what they would be without such effort expended on manufacturing dictatorial behavior? As my source of entertainment. Jesus died because people fail to show love. That is all sin boils down to. Lack of love for God and lack of love for people. Why should I watch the things that Jesus died for? Why should I act like those things from time to time? I do, you know. I do because it is my human nature to not always act in love. Romans 7 speaks of the dilemma: I don’t always do what I want to do, and sometimes I actually do the things I hate: http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/romans/7.html audio: http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/romans/7-audio.html easy to understand language but may not be a good translation: http://www.biblestudytools.com/gnt/romans/7.html Questions to ponder: 1. Who wants to show that stuff on TV and why? 2. Why do people enjoy watching people inflict pain on other people? 3. What were the Roman Gladiator events? 4. What kind of people went to the Gladiator stadium? It was culturally OK? People like you and me? Why? ...
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Sat Apr 13th, 2013 11:58 am |
|
11th Post |
|
Joe Kelley Administrator
|
1. Who wants to show that stuff on TV and why? To me the answer is The Monopoly, and that question is much like me asking you if you have the power to write a check for as much money as everyone else combined, and you have to say no, you can't do that and get away with it, it is not your "legal" "right" or "privilege" to command that much power in these United States (so called). So I can't show that stuff on TV. I can answer that with the observation of what the competition shows on TV. Alex Jones runs a Television Competition Show. What does he show? Other countries are places where other Monopolies exist, and in that way other countries are places where there are Competitive versions of TV Shows, some Mimic the Monopoly ("Subsidized" or Legal Crime) TV Shows shown here, but some do not, so which POWER picks the shows to be shown? You I Who else? How many shows have you produced? I know of 1 book, and it is not yet ready for prime time. 2. Why do people enjoy watching people inflict pain on other people? I think that each individual can be known, accurately known, to be experiencing this, or that, while subjected to this or that, and all of that can be measured accurately with brain activity working in different places on the brain. If you think someone "enjoys" seeing pain being inflicted upon someone, then that idea in your mind can be measured as brain activity in a specific place in the brain. That is typical cause and effect measured in sociopaths or psychopaths, and the clinical term may be a different term, the author Erich Fromm uses the term necrophilia and the term and there is also the term narcissism used by people who study these things. I highly recommend The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness by Erich Fromm if you have an interest in answering this question. I don't enjoy, as in desire, love, get pleasure from, seeing someone being injured. Like watching a train wreck, there are emotions, but it isn't the same thing as a clinical sociopath who enjoys inflicting pain on animals as a child and then grows up to be a politician, you know, serial killers with badges. 3. What were the Roman Gladiator events? Many people failing to know better? Everyone torturing their own souls, and destroying the good things life has to offer? 4. What kind of people went to the Gladiator stadium? It was culturally OK? People like you and me? Why? When crime pays well, what do you think is going to happen? So why do people think it is tolerable to send to the best liars so much of their hard earned, honestly produced, earnings? You tell me.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Sat Apr 13th, 2013 08:43 pm |
|
12th Post |
|
bear Guest
|
So why do people think it is tolerable to send to the best liars so much of their hard earned, honestly produced, earnings? Because we, for the most part, are like hampsters on a wheel. We, just do what we do because the wheel is there. When I say we, I am not talking about you. I am talking about people for the most part. Sorta like believing in abject falsehood. But the thing is, the hampster does not know the wheel is a falsehood. The hampster just likes to run and run and run. I don't konw that the hampster cares that it is getting no where as long as his cage contains food and water. So why do people think it is tolerable to send to the best liars so much of their hard earned, honestly produced, earnings? I never knew until you told me. Joe, it seems that alot of our conversations are ending with a statement like: So why do people think it is tolerable to send to the best liars so much of their hard earned, honestly produced, earnings? Is that a book theme? I haven't been saving them. Should I go back and find them?
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Sun Apr 14th, 2013 01:12 pm |
|
13th Post |
|
Joe Kelley Administrator
|
I'm not sure about the next book being a follow up discussion but that may be a very good idea, depending upon how the first book works in gaining currency. The concept of saving quotes is growing more and more useful to me, as you probably see while I write here and on The Daily Paul, and I access selected quotes from relevant sources. Since exemplified, or demonstrated, a capacity to arrange things in an artful order, with the chapters in the first book, it may be workable to combine our specialties into another book form of some kind. I think that is on the horizon.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Current time is 01:39 pm | |
| Power Independence > News > News > Daily Paul | Top |
