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| Moderated by: Joe Kelley | Page:   ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ...   |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 01:06 pm |
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121st Post |
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eatenbyagrue Guest
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Joe Kelley wrote: http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/432.html I commend you on gathering all this info, but you should examine the sources you cite a little bit more carefully. There is substantial evidence that alcohol/ethanol is not so great. Have you considered the cost of producing corn-based ethanol, for example, which appears to be the cheapest type of alcohol-based fuel to produce? You need irrigation for crops, fertilizer, tractors, etc. Then you have to process it. Also, ethanol cannot be pipelined like gasoline, because ethanol degrades somehow when that is attempted. The end result of all this is that ethanol takes about as much energy to create as it gives back. And have you considered how much of the USA's surface would need to be devoted to planting corn in order to supply us with all the ethanol we need. Why do you suppose the government is currently subsidizing it? If it was so great, wouldn't it make money on its own?
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| Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 04:04 pm |
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122nd Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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eatenbyagrue, I do some of my own research, checking eyewitness accounts, find specific books, track down ideas, etc. Is there something specific about the source you quote that inspires skepticism? There is substantial evidence that alcohol/ethanol is not so great. I agree. I think that Solar Panels and Electric cars are the best investment compared to any other in view. The idea here is to see how a monopoly power works as the monopoly power expends power toward the elimination of all competition. Competition is a power that works toward improving quality and lowering costs; therefore the absence of competition allows lower quality and higher cost. Do you understand this significant and vital point? Have you considered the cost of producing corn-based ethanol, for example, which appears to be the cheapest type of alcohol-based fuel to produce? One step down from Solar Panels and Electric Cars as the top source of high quality and low cost power is Bio-Fuel made from Algae grown in Modular Vertical Green Houses. I can provide links, if you are interested. I have a friend who lives in Brazil and he reports to me how the Gasoline Stations there have both Petroleum Fuel (Oil based Gasoline) and Bio-Fuel (made from sugar) at the pumps, the choice is up to the consumers in Brazil from those two fuels. Another fuel that is currently available is “Bean-Oil” and I know this because my brother is Vice-President at a Ready-Mix Concrete and Aggregate Company, here in California, where they are running some of the off-road vehicles on bean-oil. The last I heard was that the bean oil became thick when it grew cold in the winter. The supplier of the bean oil is more local, than “The Middle East” as the supplier – which is another vital and significant point concerning these competitive fuels. You need irrigation for crops, fertilizer, tractors, etc. One of the supposed problems with electricity is the lack of a method of storing excess electricity during non-peak consumption hours. What do you think about using excess electricity during non-peak hours in the process of desalination of saltwater, pumping water from under ground and storing extra water in larger elevated water storing areas, and then having that power employed instead of wasted, not produced, or otherwise unwisely economized? Also, ethanol cannot be pipelined like gasoline, because ethanol degrades somehow when that is attempted. The end result of all this is that ethanol takes about as much energy to create as it gives back. I think you miss the point concerning the link where the guy tells a story about how the oil companies managed to cause the destruction of competition in the transportation fuel market. The idea, I think, was to educate individual people who could then use that knowledge to become more independent of the central powers – by one specific method of producing one specific alternate fuel type (not exactly the most ideal method – perhaps). And have you considered how much of the USA's surface would need to be devoted to planting corn in order to supply us with all the ethanol we need. If I had my way I’d issue two new monetary products in the USA and those monetary products would fix the current problem in the USA. I do not have the power to control the USA, not the use of the surface, not the money, and not the employment of the military force. I think Algae in Vertical Farming (modular units) is much more efficient and economical as it uses much less surfaced area, much less water, much less labor, and much less power than any other plant – as far as my understanding goes at this point. Why do you suppose the government is currently subsidizing it? Please be specific about the subsidy in view. What exactly is being subsidized, how much, by whom, and who exactly is receiving the subsidy in question? If you can provide that specific data, then I can probably do a better job finding an answer the question. If it was so great, wouldn't it make money on its own? Can we work on the idea called credit? I think it is important to understand how credit works. Some investments require a whole lot of front money before the benefits pay off; such as Hover Dam (as one example). Last edited on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 04:06 pm by Joe Kelley |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 07:37 pm |
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123rd Post |
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eatenbyagrue Guest
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The article you cite is really terrible. I have no idea what brasschecktv.com is or where it gets its facts, but many of the number items listed are just plain wrong. First, on this idea that original cars ran on alcohol, and the implication that gasoline took over as primary fuel due to the prohibition. This is complete and total nonsense. It's true that some early engines ran on alcohol, but so what? There were some early car engines that ran on steam. First oil wells were dug in 1859. The distillation into kerosine happened around that time. The first cars, in the early 1890's used petrol as fuel, and this quickly became the norm. I believe all the early Ford models, from the A, C to the T models all ran on gasoline. A simple Google search will confirm this. So this idea that early cars ran on alcohol and somehow the prohibition put an end to this is just plain false. Next, there is the claim that alcohol can be produced at $1 per gallon. This is wrong on two levels. First, it is misleading. A gallon of ethanol is much less dense than gasoline, so it is not comparable gallon to gallon. Second, according to most sources, ethanol cannot be produced at $1 per gallon. Current estimates are about $1.75 per gallon. I am not sure what effect growing more corn for ethanol would have on the price of food, but to say there would be no effect is counterintuitive. Mass use of corn and other plants for fuel would increase demand for those plants. And we know what happens when demand rises. Later, there is the claim that using plants for fuel is incredibly efficient? How so? As I pointed out, lots of money is spent on irrigating, fertilizing, harvesting, transporting, processing, all of which requires its own fuel, money, and leaves a carbon footprint. Next is a thinly veiled conspiracy theory, that somehow the oil companies are discouraging the use of ethanol. I am not sure who makes ethanol exactly, but I know that oil companies sell the blended product, so they are making money there too. And hey, if it was a great business, the oil companies would be interested in it. After all, ethanol is renewable. Exxon could set up ethanol processing plants - it has the money. Anyway, maybe you just did not think too much about what you are posting, and that is understandable, as you do not have many readers, but if you want this site to be a resource for someone, or persuade someone, and not just sound like you are quoting random things and hoping something will stick, you should do your due diligence.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 08:17 pm |
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124th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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The article you cite is really terrible. I have no idea what brasschecktv.com is or where it gets its facts, but many of the number items listed are just plain wrong. eatenbyagrue, Please consider backing up your conclusions with data, any data, a link, a book, a quote, a newspaper article, something, anything, please, something other than mere negation. http://www.permaculture.com/ There is a link to David Blume; so anyone an begin to inspect the data offered by David Blume. http://www.permaculture.com/node/354 That is a pre-emptive (or ongoing) answer to the skeptics from that site (not my site). http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Prohibition+of+alcohol+by+oil+companies&aq=f&oq=&aqi= That is a simple Google search on the words: Prohibition of alcohol by oil companies Here is the top of the list on that search: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=2599 Alcohol Prohibition removed competition for Rockefeller's Standard Oil Company I don’t posses or control perfect information. I don’t have it, I don’t know where to get it, but I do know that people are being tortured and mass murdered by legal criminals, and one way those legal criminals get the power to torture and mass murder is deception. If I knew the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, I suppose I’d be God. I’m not. First oil wells were dug in 1859. The distillation into kerosine happened around that time. The first cars, in the early 1890's used petrol as fuel, and this quickly became the norm. I believe all the early Ford models, from the A, C to the T models all ran on gasoline. A simple Google search will confirm this. OK: Search for: Early conversion alcohol motor fuel Find this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_drane.html In the early days of automotive industry several manufacturers produced motors designed to run on alcohol, instead of the relatively new and scarce product called gasoline. The Ford Model T was originally designed to burn alcohol, gasoline or a combination of both. However, Ford and other manufactures soon bowed to the intense pressure exerted by the emerging oil monopolies of the time and began designing motors with gasoline as the only intended fuel. Are they as false as David Blume, because you say so, or because you have data proving that the Ford Model T was NOT originally designed to burn alcohol, gasoline or a combination of both? I would like to know the truth about this subject. So this idea that early cars ran on alcohol and somehow the prohibition put an end to this is just plain false. Please consider offering data in support of the truth – please. Next, there is the claim that alcohol can be produced at $1 per gallon. This is wrong on two levels. First, it is misleading. A gallon of ethanol is much less dense than gasoline, so it is not comparable gallon to gallon. Second, according to most sources, ethanol cannot be produced at $1 per gallon. Current estimates are about $1.75 per gallon. Your basis for refuting the claims made by someone is claim made by an unspecified source. David Blume claims to have produced alcohol fuel and in so doing he claims to know how much it cost to produce alcohol fuel – so you are claiming that David Blume is a fraud? I want to get this straight, without ambiguity. Are you claiming that David Blume is a fraud? If you are then I will expend some energy and time toward contacting David Blume; so as to allow him to defend himself against this charge by you. I am not sure what effect growing more corn for ethanol would have on the price of food, but to say there would be no effect is counterintuitive. Mass use of corn and other plants for fuel would increase demand for those plants. And we know what happens when demand rises. I think that you misunderstand the point. It may be me. I think that the point is that independent people can use their own land, their own water, and their own power, to make their own motor fuel, and I thing that point is separate from the “macro” economic point. What should the U.S.A. do to satisfy power needs? That is a “macro” economic question. I don’t think that David Blume is saying: “The U.S.A. should make alcohol for motor fuel.” I think the idea is for individuals to take control of their own power needs, and alcohol production is one competitive method by which that goal can be accomplished in each individual case where the individual understands the individual costs and benefits for him or her self. I don’t think that David Blume is speaking “collectively” as if what works for one person must therefore work for everyone – if that is what you are saying. Later, there is the claim that using plants for fuel is incredibly efficient? How so? As I pointed out, lots of money is spent on irrigating, fertilizing, harvesting, transporting, processing, all of which requires its own fuel, money, and leaves a carbon footprint. How using planes for fuel is incredibly efficient is explained by David Blume, so any reader who wishes to answer that question may want to listen to the presentations by David Blume. I listened and his presentation makes a lot of sense, in particular the part where oxygen is produced by the plants as they consumer carbon monoxide. The same thinking applies to Algae as fuel – which I think is more efficient than using corn, sugar, or other plants that do not reproduce themselves as quickly as Algae. What do I know? Next is a thinly veiled conspiracy theory, that somehow the oil companies are discouraging the use of ethanol. I am not sure who makes ethanol exactly, but I know that oil companies sell the blended product, so they are making money there too. Please consider backing up your not so thinly veiled conspiracy theory on David Blume’s work. Opinion backed up by data is better than opinion backed up with no data – in my opinion. And hey, if it was a great business, the oil companies would be interested in it. After all, ethanol is renewable. Exxon could set up ethanol processing plants - it has the money. Who is Exxon? You speak as if Exxon is a person. Anyway, maybe you just did not think too much about what you are posting, and that is understandable, as you do not have many readers, but if you want this site to be a resource for someone, or persuade someone, and not just sound like you are quoting random things and hoping something will stick, you should do your due diligence. You are now turning your venom on me. You don’t know how much thought I have expended. You also don’t know how many readers read these posts. Please stop this personal attack routine; you are now wasting my time. Last edited on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 08:20 pm by Joe Kelley |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 09:31 pm |
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125th Post |
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eatenbyagrue Guest
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You site these conspiracy websites like they are in any way authoritative. It's just people repeating same stuff over and over, until it becomes more believable, because they all say it. Anyway, I am taking your advice and am done here. I suspect you are a little bit of a nutjob anyway. Good luck, maybe in another 5 years or so you will get another visitor.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 8th, 2009 10:02 am |
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126th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis12.2.html
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| Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 12:21 pm |
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127th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/fraud/911_attack/news.php?q=1244322038
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 06:26 pm |
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128th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22807.htm
How about a Google Search? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ei=CjMwSo6ECp_utQPR3_TKCA&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Haliburton+concentration+camp+contract&spell=1
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 12:22 pm |
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129th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22810.htm
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14th, 2009 07:40 pm |
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130th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/644.html
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 11:26 am |
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131st Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4069.htm If the reader has an interest in finding a good supply to meet the demand for accurate information my suggestion is to take care. That is the point. Care is a human product. Do you care? Do you care to know how power is growing in China as power is evaporating in the U.S.A.? Why would you care? What would be the point? I have a job for you to do if you think that you do care now, and I suggest that you do this job because you will care when it is time for you to begin a serious bout of caring. Read the link and get to this part: I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand what your government and its agents are doing. They go into villages, they haul out families. With the children forced to watch they castrate the father, they peel the skin off his face, they put a grenade in his mouth and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes for variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the children. I don’t mean to abuse you with conscience, and that is the point. Conscience is a voluntary thing, a genetic instruction, a human physical governing principle, and like caring: conscience is voluntary. You either do, or you don’t care. You either have a conscience or you don’t have a conscience. Some people (I read) are born without a conscience and the term (as far as I know) is necrophilia and/or narcissism. This can be tested – easily. Ask a narcissist for a confession. Care, driven by conscience, is the building blocks of social harmony, without which there is no hope for our species – we merely cease to exist – and the process on that road is illustrated with more than enough examples. Someone with a working conscience (not someone born without one, and not someone who has had his or her conscience removed by falsehood and violence) confesses – eventually. I’m not the authority on the illustration (with words) in the quotes, from the link. I’m the guy who has put the puzzle pieces together in such a way as to have the whole picture in view, making logical sense, and I got here by caring. This road is not the path of least resistance. The mind has to be open to undesirable illustrations, even those illustrations that test a person’s moral conscience. If you know what I mean, and if you are not yet convinced I’m going to link and quote again, so as to prevent some skepticism, like footnoting. This next link and quote is meant to usher in a response to all the above, a response to the next link and quote, and a warning to those who are still refusing to care about our future. http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Human-Destructiveness-Erich-Fromm/dp/080501604X The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness: EDIT: THE QUOTE FOLLOWING IS NOT FROM THE BOOK LINKED ABOVE That quote comes from a book titled The Crimes and Punishment of I.G. Farben The construction of I.G. Auschwitz has assured I.G. a unique place in business history. By adopting the theory and practice of Nazi morality, it was able to depart from the conventional economics of slavery in which slaves are traditionally treated as capital equipment to be maintained and serviced for optimum use and depreciated over a normal life span. Instead, I.G. reduced slave labor to a consumable raw material, a human ore from which the mineral of life was systematically extracted. When no usable energy remained, the living dross was shipped to the gassing chambers and cremation furnaces of the extermination center at Birkenau, where the S.S. recycled it into the German war economy: gold teeth for the Reichsbank, hair for mattresses, and fat for soap. Even the moans of the doomed became a work incentive, exhorting the remaining inmates to greater effort. Did the average German worker (tax payer) care? The parallels are interesting. History is not repeating itself, tomorrow the cycle may break. If you read the first link you may find the author report how the richest country bullies poor countries. The idea right now that I am communicating to you is to think ahead and employ sympathy; which is another manifestation of that genetic disposition to care, to “have” a conscience. Right now the old boss is going out, just like Germany was the old boss, and just like England was the old boss, and just like Rome was the old boss, empires all. Think ahead and ask yourself who will be the new boss, and I can offer some clues. Now, supposing that you have thought some, with care, think about what happens when you are no longer paying taxes to the boss. What happens when you are no longer a member of the richest country? Do you pay taxes toward maintaining your stature as being poor? Seriously think about that, please. Do you pay taxes so as to maintain your current level of poverty, once you become poor, and once you are no longer rich? Have you arrived at a seemingly solid wall of ignorance? Poor people pay taxes so as to maintain their level of poverty. Have I dented the armor in place between you and your conscience? Here is a look, again (and not with pictures, and not with “moving” pictures, but seriously, with care, you might entertain, for a moment, the reality illustrated by the words), at what happens to poor people: I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand what your government and its agents are doing. They go into villages, they haul out families. With the children forced to watch they castrate the father, they peel the skin off his face, they put a grenade in his mouth and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes for variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the children. If you prefer not to care, not to look, not to hear, about this now, just wait. You can get a taste of reality later, as it moves closer in time and place. Forces are at work now to move power from here to there because here is out of fashion. Don’t mind me. One more link: http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22850.htm I see a need to look at that link now, for some strange reason. Perhaps I am not your average Joe. One more quote (before I leave you to your version of truth): Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. When is it my turn?
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 02:58 pm |
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132nd Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22859.htm
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 03:11 pm |
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133rd Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4078.htm
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 12:14 pm |
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134th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://www.naturalnews.com/019189.html
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 11:22 am |
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135th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14055.htm
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 08:50 am |
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136th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22913.htm
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| Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 10:01 am |
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137th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22964.htm U.S. Congresswoman Kidnapped by International Pirates http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22970.htm Last edited on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 09:51 am by Joe Kelley |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 09:57 am |
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138th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/665.html
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| Posted: Fri Aug 7th, 2009 04:49 pm |
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139th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yofTTH46-qo Legal Mass Murder
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 08:38 am |
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140th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EMSpkHq1HI “A national debt, if it is not excessive, will be to us a national blessing.”
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