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| Posted: Sat May 13th, 2006 12:39 pm |
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1st Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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Hi, The above was sent here:
Sent now: 9:40 PDT Saturday May 13, 2006 Last edited on Sat May 13th, 2006 12:42 pm by Joe Kelley |
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| Posted: Sun May 14th, 2006 07:40 am |
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2nd Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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I received a reply to my inquiry. Here is a reference to that question as reported in the web site:  One of the most important applications of Magnegas fuel, the production of green electricity, that can be achieved either by using MagneGas fuel alone in any electric generator produced to operate with Natural Gas, or MagneGas can be used as an additive to Natural Gas and other fossil fuels in such a percentage (easily computable from the above Table of Exhaust) to achieve the condition for green electricity.
More: QUESTION 4: The Chart mentioned in the reply is someone confusing to me. Being a simple minded person my original question asked: Hi, All my questions were not answered in the timely, but short, reply to my inquiry. I'd publish the reply however I did not receive permission. I may even be taking too much liberty in posting the information above. I don't know. The difficulty imposed in the effort to communicate is mind boggling. From my perspective: It takes x amount of Energy going in and y amount of energy is produced. The answer to my question is roughtly: x > y. That was the expected answer. I expected that answer because I read the site first. I tried to find on the site a simple chart for simple minded people like me to help make sense of the performance data. Energy is measurable. Energy measurements can be converted to Newtons. A Newton is a measurement of power. See here now, dear reader, even if the reader is only me, myself, and I, at some point in the future, looking back, at the problem: Communication cannot occur if the language (power) used in the effort is not commonly understood. I have a need to know how much power comes out for how much power that is put in. I'm strange that way apparently. I am also strange in my appreciation for a standard measure of value. For example: If the answer to my question was: The largest unit we now have can generate 1 Newton of Magnegas at the cost of 1.1 Newtons of Electricity. My next question, in my inquiry, would have been: Can I hook you up with my Brother who works at an Aggregate plant to work out details concerning a possible purchase? Note: So far the communication effort has pretty much failed and not due to my lack of effort. I will reply to that short e-mail and I will ask again if my correspondence can be published. Here in America we have something called Peak hour costs for electricity. Even if the cost of producing Electricity with Magnegas is a net loss in energy, even so, the price of electricity during peak hours may increase the value of Magnegas to an economically viable level. The Plant in question which happens to be very close to the local sewer Plant could run the Magnegas generators at night by purchasing electricity at low cost from the power company and then during the peak hour electric cost hours the Aggregate Plant could use the Magnegas to run their diesel powered electric generators at lower costs by suplimenting diesel power with Magnegas power. I'm not completely lost on this stuff. What is needed is a common language. Newtons for newtons. I could go into a long winded diatribe in the effort to explain how ignorant it is to use overly complicated measurements like kilowatt-hours; however that topic is not currently appraised enough to even get on the list. Perhaps it is time to get back to basics? How am I supposed to convince my brother about the economy of this possible endeavor when I cannot even get a straight answer from the producers of the product? If they can't see the value in converting to Newtons, then, am I the stupid one? If they can't see the value in educating their potential customers, then, am I the stupid one? If they can't see the value in publishing public inquiries, then, am I the stupid one? If they are too busy, due to high volume sales, then, am I the stupid one? Perhaps I will remain the stupid one. The thing is: I am possessed of a mind that calculates in black and white. Price is, unfortunately, not black and white due to a vast majority of people who calculate, willfully, in terms of grey. They do so for a reason. The reason is called profit at the expense of some and to the benefit of others. Costs are transferred in this manner from the less wary to those who are skillful in manipulating the exchange calculations. Is there a reason why cost calculations are so very difficult to calculate? Yes is the answer. Cost is not the limit of price. And cost is not the limit of price for a reason. The reason is obvious to me. How can I even begin to explain the reason when no one is willing to communicate in black and white? We are trained to use common language, common terms, and common knowledge. How are 'we' doing so far? Here is how it goes: Newtons of coal, plus human labor, plus whatever interest is paid for whatever debt is involved, plus the costs of shipping the coal, also convertible to newtons, and that coal is burned to produce electricity at the local power plant. That electricity is then sent through a huge cost draining waste of wire, measurable in newtons, to the Plant where the price for each kilowatt per hour (time added to time), convertible to newtons, each unit of electric power, is paid for as this power is used. Perhaps coal is not used, perhaps the local Electric Plant uses a combination of coal, oil based fuel, Solar Energy, and possibly Wind power. Regardless; the unit of measure of power going in is x and the output is y - convertible to newtons. The electricity is then used at the Aggregate Plant and that operation uses a lot of electric power - a whole lot of newtons. That Aggregate Plant makes the stuff that ends up supporting the wheels of industry on the roads that criss-cross this great (if not stupid) country. I am one of the stupid ones who drive on those roads. Price per Newton of electricity from the Local Electric Power Plant at peak hours is high. Price per Newton at non-peak hours is low. Cost per Newton changes due to demand. More electric power is needed. Shit goes into the trout farm one Newton at a time. Shit can go to the Aggregate Plant one Newton at a time. I suppose. Low peak hour electricity can turn the shit into fuel. The Aggregate plant can use that fuel to supplement more Newtons of Green fuel added to the Newtons of HIGH DEMAND oil based fuels to run diesel electric generators (already at the Aggregate Plant) when HIGH DEMAND electricity costs are HIGH. Now, my brother has invited me on a trip this Monday. We can talk about stuff. My hope was to begin to connect some dots. Instead I'm twisting (my brothers words) concepts around while I rant. Why bother? One must be patient, disciplined, and resolute I guess. Time will tell. Last edited on Sun May 14th, 2006 07:45 am by Joe Kelley |
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| Posted: Sun May 14th, 2006 07:43 am |
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3rd Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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My task now is to write a response to be sent by e-mail to the Company called Magnegas. My e-mail will go to an INDIVIDUAL representative of that company.
The above e-mail was sent at 4:43 PDT Sunday, May 14, 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 18th, 2006 12:29 pm |
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4th Post |
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Joe Kelley Administrator
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I have received now (Thursday, May 18, 2006) an e-mail from Hydrogen Technology Applications. These guys: http://hytechapps.com/index.html The title of the e-mail states: DO NOT REPLY (Caps original) The letter reconfirms my exclusion from the investment opportunity in the effort to finance what is arguably the greatest advancement in Human technology since the Internet. Setting aside a discussion concerning "if" HHO gas is the greatest advancement in Human technology since the Internet, setting aside that discussion (I'd rather not argue anything whatsoever), my focus now concerns a simple inspection of falsehood concerning logic applied to the concept of investment. Question: If one can use money in the effort to produce more value from that money and "if" the effort has a reasonable chance of actually creating more value from that money, then, is more money investment better than less money investment? Answer: Absolutely Note: I hate the word "Absolutely" absolutely: almost. Here is how it works as I see it: My widget (a generic "Product") costs a given amount of stuff (call it money, energy, power, effort, work, force, labor, expense, capital, etc.) and from that stuff a given amount of stuff is produced (call it profit, production, value, gain, prosperity, GNP, interest, good, energy, power, currency, current, etc.). In simple mathematical terminology: X < Y Power in is less than power out. Back to the term: Absolutely. If power out is greater than power in, then, more power is absolutely more power out. Back to the math: (X < Y) < (Xz < Yz) Where: X is power in Y is power out z is a multiplier or, in other words: z is more power in Next question: If more power is possible, absolutely, then why exclude or limit the power coming in; why would one willfully deny investment in the process of creating more power? Answer: Falsehood or DO NOT REPLY Falsehood is the practice of excluding fact in the process of determining fact. Falsehood is the willful diversion from a path that can find fact to a path that will not find fact because one is set on a path that excludes fact. This is not absolute, for sure, since one can 'get lucky' or, perhaps, the hand of God may guide one even when the INDIVIDUAL is set on the road to DOOM. I crack myself up sometimes. Then I look in the mirror and my image winks back: You will always be an Idiot: Thank God! My plan was to respond to the e-mail, just delivered through the second greatest advancement in human technology since the discovery of science, the Internet, second only to HHO gas, and my eyes caught the Caps, the text, the test, the order, the exclusion, the willful rejection of any continued transfer of anything from me to 'them', as stated: DO NOT RESPOND, at which point, my efforts diverted to here and now at the keyboard typing these words. My response to be written, before the order to cease and desist, the gag order, was to ask if the producers of HHO gas would have an interest in sending me the information I would need to sell their product. I had no interest in being 'paid' by them for my efforts to gain in my effort to sell their product. I know that my efforts to gain by selling their product are practically immeasurable or in other words: Absolutely unknowable. Yet my conscience and my ability to separate that which is true from that which is false inspires me to conclude that any effort on my part to invest in HHO gas will be efforts that will result in ever greater advancements in human prosperity for all human beings and especially for posterity (read: innocent children). x = my efforts to take the documentations (that will not be delivered to me) down to the local welding shop (people I know and trust who know and trust me) and at the welding shop my efforts will manage to sell the HHO gas generator in some manner or other because the HHO gas, according to me, is a means of creating more for less, the more put in, the more that comes out, and the rate of return on investment is greater than anything now available according to me. y = Me feeling like I have actually accomplished, been a part of the new energy revolution that will rescue mankind from the abyss, and me, massaging my own conscience, for me; a value that has no price but a value that is exponentially greater in value than any other value i.e. the actual measure of value and the only means to measure value for me. x = DO NOT REPLY y = Perhaps I'm wrong about HHO gas. x < y Perhaps I am not wrong about HHO gas. Perhaps the person sending me the e-mail is infected with a particularly insidious disease called Falsehood. Time will tell. P.S. My efforts on the Magnagas front are stalled; on their end.
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