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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 11:36 am
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Joe Kelley
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Mana: 
 Here is my first submission to the "Internet" as I independently try to supply the people who use the internet with Independent Presidential Debat Coverage.

My next stop is Digg. I can Digg this story. I can also post this web page on Anarchism.net and Asia Times. I also have my own web page that has been around awhile so it is in the Networked history (Search Engines).

This tactic works. Try a Google Search for the following:

Independent Online Presidential Poll:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&pwst=1&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=1&ct=result&cd=1&q=independent+online+presidential+poll&spell=1

Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 1,170,000 for independent online presidential poll.

What the above shows, on my computer, are my web pages; on the top of the list.

Try typing in the following words:

No more legal criminals

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=no+more+legal+criminals

Results 1 - 10 of about 30,300,000 for no more legal criminals

Again - my web page is on the top. Look at the numbers = Thirty Million.

To get things started please check here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/us/politics/03demsdebate_transcript.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&bl&ei=5087%0A&en=9793b5f3376eec42&ex=1181102400&oref=slogin

If all a person does is wait around to be told who to vote for and when, then, that person will miss the following:

MR. BLITZER: Congressman Kucinich, you voted against the Patriot Act when it was first introduced; you've since voted against it. But some would say yesterday's plot that was described by the FBI underscores the need for precisely that kind of tough measure to deal with potential terrorists out there.

The 'wolf' in sheeps clothing is asking what is called a 'loaded question'.

Kucinich responds:

REP. KUCINICH: Benjamin Franklin once said that those who would give up their essential liberties to achieve a sense of security deserve neither.

The Patriot Act has undermined civil rights in this country, and as the president of the United States, one of my first acts in office would be to move forward to have the Justice Department overturn the Patriot Act as unconstitutional. We have to remember that 9/11 led us down a cul-de-sac. Americans need to reconnect with our deeper sense of self here, Wolf. We have to remember that, you know, the courage that it took to form this country is still within us, and I want to have what I call the 9-10 Forum to recreate -- to help us reconnect with a deeper sense of who we are as Americans.

Kucinich is, like Ron Paul, speaking a different language. Note the words used:

"liberties"

"unconstitutional"

"courage"

"within us"

"deeper sense of who we are"

Kucinich is the true 'liberal' or 'socialist' who speaks in terms of individuals being a part of something greater - not to be confused with 'collective'.

Kucinich also recognizes something called "Rule of Law". If the "Law of the Land" is the constitution, then, "Rule of Law" exists.

I think the constitution is a recipe for slavery; however - it is certainly far better than no "Rule of Law" while legal criminals remain very, very, accomplished in their task to enslave mankind.

This ends this post on the current Debate.

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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 11:45 am
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Joe Kelley
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Mana: 
 I updated my old Web page here:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0l0yx/

A link to this web page was added with these words:

Independent Presidential Debate Coverage.

Now I can check to see if my efforts show up on Google (only two pages have been made so far and it has taken about 15 mnutes or so):

Google for Independent Presidential Debate Coverage:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Independent+presidential+debate+coverage

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,050,000 for Independent presidential debate coverage.

 

From my search at this time 8:40 AM (my clock is off by a few minutes) Pacific U.S. Tuesday June 5, 2007 the following is the top story for Independent prsidential debate coverage:

http://independentskeptic.blogspot.com/2007/06/democrats-were-in-new-hampshire-tonight.html


Monday, June 4, 2007
More Debate Coverage


The Democrats were in New Hampshire tonight for their latest debate. CNN's coverage was loaded with second-rate commentary.

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 11:54 am
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Joe Kelley
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Mana: 
 http://forum.atimes.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10392

If you have yet to find the above forum, then, you now have found it.

It is right there. Dive in.

If you have been carefully following the Debates for President, then, you have heard Ron Paul describe how the Chinese can bring this country to its knees.

That is no joke. You might start questioning any references to the Chinese as being an Evil Empire. Anyone suggesting that falsehood should be asked to prove it.

You will get more falsehood. How much do you appreciate being lied to?

How much will it cost you to believe in lies?

Don't worry too much; you will find out before the end.

Next is the Google search after my Asia Times forum post:

Independent Presidential Debate Coverage

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Independent+presidential+debate+coverage

No change yet. Goolge takes time to update.

 

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 12:00 pm
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Joe Kelley
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Mana: 
 http://www.anarchism.net/forum/board_entry.php?id=14540&category=0

There is Anarchism.net

Ask anyone:

Do you want the power to defend against ciminals?

If the answer is yes, then, you have found an anarchist. I can explain on that forum linked above. This forum, and this topic, is specific to a particular event.

Independent Presidential Debate Coverage

Google again:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Independent+presidential+debate+coverage

No change. I'll check back later.

Have a wonderful day! Don't make someone else pay for it. Don't be afraid to speak the truth loud and clear. Don't take my word for it.

 

 

 

 

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 12:02 pm
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Joe Kelley
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MR. BLITZER: Hold on one second. We're going to get back to this. I want to let Senator Gravel, he hasn't had a chance to speak yet.

Senator Gravel, I know you've been outspoken on all of these issues. Where very briefly do you disagree with these other Democratic candidates?

MR. GRAVEL: Totally. Totally. It's just that simple. Four of these people here will say that it's George Bush's war. It was facilitated by the Democrats. They brought the resolution up, one of them authored, co-authored it here, standing here, and so it's -- sure, it's George Bush's war, but it's the Democrats' war also.

Now, you want to end it? You're concerned about what's going to happen after we withdraw. Remember Vietnam. All the dominoes are going to fall, Southeast Asia's going to go -- is going to go communist. Well, how do we know what will happen? I do know this, that the insurgency is successful because the population sustains that insurgency. Period.

MR. BLITZER: Let's go to the next question from Tom.

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 12:41 pm
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Joe Kelley
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Mana: 
 http://digg.com/world_news/Independent_Presidential_Debate_Coverage

 

Dugg

 

New Search:

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Independent+presidential+debate+coverage

 

No change.

 

Back to the Debate:

 



MR. BLITZER: I don't know if we're having trouble with this mike. I'll read you his question.

The union leader, the main newspaper here in New Hampshire, asked readers to e-mail their questions. Here's one from Michael Pelletier, a major in the New Hampshire National Guard.

"Can you tell me if the mission we accomplished during our deployment in Iraq was worth our effort and sacrifice, or was it a waste of time and resources?

REP. KUCINICH: I honor the people who served. We all owe them a debt of gratitude, but those who sent those soldiers were wrong. They should have never been sent there in the first place, Wolf. This war has been based on lies, and we could have a productive evening here right now if all of my colleagues on this stage or in the Congress would commit to telling the Democratic leadership not even to offer a funding bill because that's really the way to end the war, Wolf, just say no money, the war's over.

You want to end it, bring them home, stop the funding.

And this is where Senator Clinton says well this is George Bush's war. Oh no. There's a teachable moment here, and a teachable moment is that this war belongs to the Democratic party because the Democrats were put in charge by the people in the last election with the thought that they were going to end the war. Well, they haven't. They have to stop the funding. And I certainly am urging all of my colleagues here, don't give them any more money. The money's in the pipeline right now, enough to bring the troops home.

MR. BLITZER: All right.

REP. KUCINICH: Let's end the war and let's make this a productive evening.
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 12:44 pm
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 MR. GRAVEL: More Americans died because of their decision. That disqualifies them for president. It doesn't mean they're bad people, it just means that they don't have moral judgment, and that's very important when you become president.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/us/politics/03demsdebate_transcript.html?pagewanted=7&bl&_r=1&ei=5087%0A&en=9793b5f3376eec42&ex=1181102400

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 12:46 pm
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REP. KUCINICH: I reject this whole approach. And the American people should know that with half the bankruptcies in the country connected to people not being able to pay their doctor bills or hospital bills, premiums, co-pays and deductibles going so far through the roof -- 46 million Americans, no health care; another 50 million underinsured, there is only one way to get health care coverage for all Americans, and that is to have a universal single-payer, not-for- profit healthcare system, Medicare for All. Wolf, I've written the bill -- it's H.R. 676 -- with John Conyers, supported by 14,000 physicians.

MR. BLITZER: All right.

REP. KUCINICH: And you know what? What Senator Clinton, Senator Edwards, Senator Obama are talking about, they're talking about letting the insurance companies stay in charge. They're talking about continuing a for-profit health care system. (Applause.) And I think --

MR. BLITZER: All right. Hold on. No applause.

REP. KUCINICH: -- we need a president who's ready to challenge that. And I'm ready to challenge the insurance companies.

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 12:49 pm
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MR. SPRADLING: Senator Gravel, if you are elected president, how, if at all, would you use former President Bill Clinton in your administration? (Laughter.)

SEN. CLINTON: (Laughs.)

MR. GRAVEL: How would I use him? I like Clinton as a roving ambassador around the world. He'd be good. He could take his wife with him, who will still be in the Senate. (Laughter.)

SEN. CLINTON: (Laughs.)

 

Ho ho ho

A commercial break?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17828.htm

I can watch that later.

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 01:00 pm
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MR. BLITZER: Senator Gravel?

MR. GRAVEL: Yeah, well, I join him on the carbon tax. And, of course, that will raise the price of gasoline. Let's be candid about that.

There's nothing I would do as president to lower the price of gasoline right now. We Americans have to grow up. If we want to get off of the dependency in the Middle East, we have to own up to the problem. These things cost money. They're controlling our society.

And the sooner we stop fighting these wars -- here, stop and think. You only see $3. Just watch those wheels turn. There's another $4, which is what we spend to keep American troops around the world to keep the price.

So you're paying more than seven dollars a gallon; you just don't know it.

 

Anyone can check the link where these words are published to find what the crimnal frauds have to say while I cut and paste the honest parts out:

MR. VAUGHN: Jennie, what's your question for the candidates tonight?

Q My question is, what is your vision on ending major military operations, and how do you plan on rebuilding the military after such many years of conflict?

MR. BLITZER: All right, let me throw that question to Congressman Kucinich because he's been outspoken on a lot of these issues.

REP. KUCINICH: Thank you very much, Wolf.

First of all, thank you and your family for serving.

This country has to end its occupation of Iraq. And as I mentioned earlier, the Congress, the Democratic Congress, has a very serious responsibility in this regard.

We should simply not provide any bill at all. It's one thing to say you don't have the votes. It's another thing not to even offer a bill and tell the president he had some money now that's in the pipeline to bring the troops home.

And with respect to this war, this war has degraded our service ability. And we need to have, certainly, a strong Army, but I believe that peace is the way we reflect our strength. So I want to see an American military that will be a strong peacekeeping force, not one that is being misused, like the one in this administration, misused our military, and we need a commander in chief who wants to link peace with security and who wants to see America's role working with the world community in cooperation.

MR. BLITZER: But her question was specifically, what would you do to rebuild the military, which seems to be pretty stretched right now? What -- do you have a plan?

REP. KUCINICH: Well, the first thing we need to do is cut -- first of all, there's a couple different dimensions to this. One is, we need to cut military spending overall by about 25 percent. There's a lot of waste here we're talking about. Money hasn't been focused on the troops per se. This $97 billion that went for this war? This isn't going to the troops. A small fraction goes to the troops. So we need to have a strong military. We need to encourage people to be serving in our country's military, but we've got to end the United States' commitment to war as an instrument of diplomacy.

MR. BLITZER: All right. I'm going to bring everybody in, but Senator Obama, you want to increase the size of the U.S. military by almost 100,000 troops. That's going to cost billions and billions of dollars. What do you say to Congressman Kucinich, who says he wants to cut the size of the U.S. military?

 

If you are wondering where the money goes, then, do a Google search for Blackwater.

I can help:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Blackwater

http://www.amazon.com/Blackwater-Rise-Worlds-Powerful-Mercenary/dp/1560259795

You could do worse than read the book above.

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 01:02 pm
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Joe Kelley
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Senator Gravel, you served in the military during the Korean War. Have you had any experiences with the Veterans Affairs Department as a veteran yourself?

MR. GRAVEL: Very much. I get my meds from the VA, so I know the situation quite well.

MR. BLITZER: So you're satisfied or unsatisfied?

MR. GRAVEL: I'm satisfied, very much so, and I think they do a good job. But I think it's really somewhat appalling because the government has always, always waged war against the veterans. And I would suggest that Senator Obama, who's on the committee, did they do any -- any oversight work to find out, before they read in The Washington Post that there was a scandal up the street at Walter Reed?

MR. BLITZER: All right.

MR. GRAVEL: I mean, what about that?

MR. BLITZER: What about that --

MR. GRAVEL: Did they all get informed of that, or did you know it before?

SEN. OBAMA: The -- actually, we have done a lot of oversight trying to consistently force this administration to put money into the system that it has refused.

MR. GRAVEL: But did you know about it ahead of time?

SEN. OBAMA: Let -- let -- let -- let -- let me -- let me finish, Mike.

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 01:04 pm
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Joe Kelley
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MR. BLITZER: Congressman Kucinich, if you were president of the United States and the intelligence community said to you, "We know where Osama bin Laden is, he's in Pakistan. We've got a specific target, but he's only going to be there for 20 minutes. You got to give the order, yes or no, to take him out with a HELLFIRE missile, but it's going to kill some innocent civilians at the same time," what would be your decision?

REP. KUCINICH: I don't think that a president of the United States, who believes in peace and who wants to create peace in the world, is going to be using assassinations as a tool, because when you do that, it comes back at your country. And I think that Osama bin Laden, if he's still alive, ought to be held to account in an international court of law and so should any other person who's been involved in a violation of international law, which has been result -- which has resulted in the deaths of many people.

And so I think that an America which has a strong stand morally in the world is an America that shows a way to get to peace, and an America that stands for peace is a strong country.

So I would say, to answer that question, I don't believe in assassination politics, and when you do that, you inevitably bring the assassination of our own leaders into play.

MR. BLITZER: Senator Obama, you want to respond?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, I think Dennis is right, that --


 
Just in case you are wondering:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&pwst=1&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Assassination+Politics&spell=1

http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm

If you read the last link above and are someone confused as to the relevance here I can help. There is an economic term called "Selling Short". Someone can make a lot of money if they know 'inside information'.

Example:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=911+put+options

http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/stockputs.html

Huge surges in purchases of put options on stocks of the two airlines used in the attack -- United Airlines and American Airlines

Another term for "Selling Short" is "Put Options" another one is "Insider Trading".

All are forms of Assassination Politics – read Jim Bell (who went to prison after writing Assassination Politics).

Thought crime

 

Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 01:11 pm by Joe Kelley
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 01:12 pm
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Joe Kelley
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MR. BLITZER: I just want everybody to raise their hand and tell me if you agree that if the U.S. had intelligence that could take out Osama bin Laden and kill him, even though some innocent civilians would die in the process, would you, as president, authorize such an operation? If you would raise your hand.

SEN. BIDEN: It would depend on how many innocent civilians --

SEN. CLINTON: Yeah, I mean part of this is one of these hypotheticals, Wolf --

MR. GRAVEL: Not enough information. Not enough information.

 

Falsehood must contain half truths otherwise we are all liars.

 

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 01:15 pm
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Joe Kelley
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Q Well, on a little bit of a lighter note, I spent last summer in Germany with a family whose oldest son was completing his one year of mandatory service to his country. I was wondering if you think we should have that, and if so, how do you plan to make it happen?

MR. BLITZER: All right, Senator Gravel, let me ask you that question.

MR. GRAVEL: And obviously, I filibustered and forced the end of the draft. I don't think we need it back. If you want to volunteer for the military, you're entitled to do it.

I would like to see a voluntary program where young people would have an opportunity to render public service, whether it's in the military, whether it's the Peace Corps, whether it's the AmeriCorps -- all of the above. And then for every year that you serve, we'll give you four years of school free. (Applause.) That would give you an incentive to move forward and do something about education in this country.

MR. BLITZER: Congressman Kucinich, should there be mandatory service for young people after they finish high school?

REP. KUCINICH: I would take the approach that John F. Kennedy took when he said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country," and inspire young people to want to serve; want to serve not only in the military, which is honorable service, but also to serve in helping to clean up our environment; also to serve in tutoring children and helping the elderly and working hospitals.

There are so many different ways that we can encourage youth to serve. To make it mandatory loses the point. People want to love America again, and when you have a president who will inspire the young people, they'll want to get involved.

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 01:26 pm
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REP. KUCINICH: I'm saying that we should not be borrowing money from China to run a war in Iraq. We need to change our spending policies in many ways.

First of all, stop war. Most of the people on this stage voted consistently to fund a war we should have never gotten in the first place.

Change our trade laws. We need to get out of NAFTA and the WTO and go back to bilateral trade -- (applause) -- conditioned on workers' rights, human rights, and the environment, and stop driving an $800 billion trade deficit.

We need to have health care for all, all Americans in a not-for- profit health care system. That's going to help the gentleman with his beauty salon and the small business, when you have a chance to health care at a fraction of what you're paying now and everything's covered.

And then, finally, environment. I say we can create millions of news jobs with a new WGA inspiring technologies for wind and solar and insulation on a domestic basis. We can create new wealth. I want to create new wealth and I want to stop wasting the money where we're wasting it --

MR. BLITZER: All right.

REP. KUCINICH: -- or losing the wealth in our trade policies.

 

What is "create new wealth"?

I call it Power Independence.

Ron Paul can see the same thing; I'm sure. His approach intends to create a race to the top by eliminating the barriers in place against transparent competition. Currently the oil and military companies are subsidized. Once they have to compete on a level playing field there will be a race to the top i.e. Power Independence.

The race will no longer be aiming at the bottom i.e. torture, rape, murder, mass torture, mass rape, mass murder, fraud, falsehood, violence, and other means to the same end i.e. the bottom.

 

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 01:28 pm
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 MR. GRAVEL: You can't get all this money coming at you, millions of dollars from all the special interests, and think that they're now going to deal with solving the problems with special interests. Won't happen.
Did you check out Blackwater yet?

How about a movie called Who Killed the Electric Car?

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 01:29 pm
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MR. BLITZER: Thank you, Senator.

We're going to go back to Jennifer in a second, but I know Congressman Kucinich wants to weigh in.

MR. GRAVEL: Listen. They've been raiding the Social Security trust funds of $200 million a year, and they're all involved in this. Now, what do they say about it? You balance the budget by raiding the Social Security fund of $200 million a year? And they're doing it now!

MR. BLITZER: Congressman Kucinich, you want to respond to that?

REP. KUCINICH: I do, because we're looking at a process here in Washington that most of the American public isn't aware of. And that is, these interest groups have such a hold on our country that right now they're headed to grab the oil of Iraq using our troops. Right now they're keeping a not-for-profit health-care system in its place. Right now they're keeping NAFTA in its place. I'm talking about a real change here that gives the American people a chance to recover their country totally and by moving away from the interest groups --

MR. BLITZER: All right.

REP. KUCINICH: -- that, unfortunately, support some of my dear friends here.

 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 01:30 pm
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 REP. KUCINICH: Keep in mind, we could stop that war in Iraq now by not providing any funding.

But what I intend to do is to be a president who helps to reshape the world for peace, to work with all the leaders of the world in getting rid of nuclear weapons, rejecting policies that create war as an instrument of the diplomacy; making sure that we cause the nations of the world to come together for fair trade, cancel NAFTA, cancel the WTO, go back to bilateral trade conditioned on workers' rights, human rights; create a not-for-profit health care system. I'd send the bill to Congress.

MR. BLITZER: Very quickly, Senator Gravel and then Senator Dodd. But very quickly, your top priority?

MR. GRAVEL: Top priority is to turn to these people and say they're part of the leadership right now in the Congress. They could end the war if they want to --

MR. BLITZER: Okay.

MR. GRAVEL: -- all they got to do is show the leadership and that will qualify them to be president.
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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 12:19 pm
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Joe Kelley
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Mana: 
 Did the Republicans debate?

How about a quick Google search to find out?

What can be typed into this search?

How about Independent Presidential Debate Coverage?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Independent+presidential+debate+coverage

Guess what?

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,070,000 for Independent presidential debate coverage.

This web page has the two top spots now.

Here:

Asia Times Online Community and News Discussion - Independent ...



Independent Presidential Debate Coverage is hard to find. Imagine a world where you can get Independent Presidential Debate Coverage? ...
forum.atimes.com/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10392&REPLY_ID=167197 - 30k - Jun 5, 2007 - [url=http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:PxPLH32ljgsJ:forum.atimes.com/topic.asp%3Fwhichpage%3D-1%26TOPIC_ID%3D10392%26REPLY_ID%3D167197+Independent+presidential+debate+coverage&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us]Cached[/url] - Similar pages - Note this
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Digg - Independent Presidential Debate Coverage



Where can you go to find the latest independent presidential debate coverage? Try Googling for Independent Presidential Debate Coverage ...
digg.com/world_news/Independent_Presidential_Debate_Coverage - 16k - Jun 5, 2007 - Cached - Similar pages - Note this


How about those republicans?

 

 
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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 12:26 pm
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Joe Kelley
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Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
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What does GOP stand for?

That is a loaded question.

I am trying to find independent coverage of the presidential debate between the republican candidates on June 6. So far all I can find is 'commercial' 'for profit' 'advertisements' concerning the event.

When I find an independent source (one that has the whole debate linked for me to link), then, I will link it and add my own version of 'spin'.

 
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