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| Joined: | Mon Nov 21st, 2005 |
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Anyone,
I could discuss this topic with someone who has an angle of view whereby their view is precise and factual concerning the true motives behind actual actions performed by specific people in reference to these Real News stories.
I'm going to pretend to be discussion the topic by quoting from Bill Black.
Bill Black says:
So the first part was the interest rate crisis, when chairman [Paul] Volcker decided to break the back of inflation by dramatically raising interest rates.
I would have said:
"Hold on there, Bill, I don't know why anyone would ever say such a thing, since the facts don't add up on that angle of view, that sounds to me like a huge lie."
Bill Black might say:
"What lie?"
Joe:
"Bill, don't you know that inflation isn't a problem, and interest rates aren't a crisis, so long as you have the legal license to create legal money, do you have it?"
Bill Black might say:
"I think I know where you are going there, but I want to stick to the topic, and not get too far away from it."
Joe:
"Readers, most of them I known, lost you at that claim you just made concerning "breaking the back of inflation" and "interest rate crisis". Why don't you speak without resorting to double speak, people can then know what you are talking about, actual people, not legal criminals, regular working people, the people who actually produce surplus wealth, you know, the people who actually create enough wealth to actually afford the luxury of having a government of any kind whatsoever."
Bill Black might say:
"See...how far away from the topic can you get?"
Joe:
"Not far at all, the supposed interest rate crisis isn't a crisis at all, not if you accurately identify the group of people who have the legal power to change the interest rate, so why not spend one moment of your time discriminating better?"
Bill Black might say:
"It was an interest rate crisis, these are the facts."
Joe:
"It was not an interest rate crisis, there you are mistaken, by roughly half. You are half true, and therefore you are perpetuating double speak. Double speak is produced for a reason, a very specific reason. Why do you support such falsehoods in that way, why don't you break the back of falsehood instead of supporting it?"
Bill Black might say:
"Can we get back to the topic?"
Joe:
"So long as it is clearly reported that the group of people who have the power to add or subtract dollars from the legal dollar total number of dollars have that power and that to them there is no interest rate crisis, none at all, the reverse is true, the interest rate is exactly where they want it at that time, since they have the power to raise or lower the interest rate, a function of having the power to add or subtract from the total number of dollars."
Bill Black might say:
"Can I get back to the topic?"
Joe:
"Please do, but one more time, I'll quote your words and then one more reinforcement of the pertinent facts."
Your words:
So the first part was the interest rate crisis, when chairman [Paul] Volcker decided to break the back of inflation by dramatically raising interest rates.
Joe:
"There was no crisis, it was, as it is now, a moment in the cycle, as the legal money makers cause economic depression, or bust, and from the viewpoint of the legal criminals who create that cycle, it can't be viewed as a crisis. It was not a crisis. That is a fact. It was no more of a crisis than inflation is a crisis, since inflation is the upward or boom part of the cycle, created on purpose, and therefore also not a crisis.
"The confidence scheme is covered up by words such as "crisis" and "inflation" and other falsehoods, so as to perpetuate the legal license to commit this specific legal crime, where the legal criminals who have the license to add or subtract to the legal number of dollars abuse that power and create a business cycle, for profit, at the expense of the people who work and create wealth. The wealth created by people who create wealth flows down this one way circuit to those people who have the legal license to add and subtract from the supply of legal dollars, and they use that power to commit these specific crimes that are hidden behind these lies, these half truths, that you perpetuate, by your choice to use these words.
"Please go on."
Savings and loans, especially in the era of the savings and loan debacle, made home loans to people.
If someone is reading this, and someone is thinking of asking a question at this point, I'll speak for you, and I'll ask the pertinent questions at this point. Note how Paul Jay is speaking for the people, trying to get Bill Black to speak words that people can understand too."
Joe:
"Hold on there Jay, hold on Bill, can it be understood that the average working person can't borrow one dollar for the purchase of a necessary home without having to pay back two dollars on average?"
Bill:
"That moves us way off topic."
Jay:
"Quickly, answer the question Bill, Joe may be going somewhere here, somewhere worth going, a long shot, but possibly worth the investment."
Bill:
"Yes, on average, an average person has to pay roughly twice the cost of a home, in interest payments."
Joe:
"So, who receives that added value, who banks the wealth that equals one extra home for each home built, while average Joe works and pays for two homes, and Joe owns one of them, who owns the second home, the Savings and Loan people?"
Bill:
"Can we return to the topic?"
Paul:
"We need more time to explore that answer, let's return to the topic."
Joe:
"Why? Why rush ahead. Who benefits from half truths?"
Paul:
"Continue with the topic, please, Bill."
Bill:
"Hold on, Joe may have a point, so let me back up."
And savings and loans borrowed very short, as we say: deposits were short-term. Their assets were very long-term.
Joe:
"Yes, that is my point, the high interest rate only works when the people are fooled into the false belief of an ever expanding economy where a high interest rate is affordable because, and only because, asset prices keep going up, and up, and up, and up, and therefore someone can afford to pay three times as much for a house today because the price of the house will be three times as expensive in 30 years.
The legal criminals charge a medium interest rate to the Savings and Loan people, effectively one extra house price, and then the Savings and Loan people charge the average Joe another extra house price.
Math works better to illustrate how that works.
Legal Criminals get back the money they loan plus the cost of one house.
Savings and Loan people get back the money they loan plus the cost of two houses, they keep one house, and they pay the Legal Criminals two houses, one house of borrowed money, and one house profit.
Average Joe borrows at a high enough interest rate to be so high as to force Joe to make enough wealth to pay for three whole houses.
Joe works to make:
1 House to live in.
1 House to pay the Savings and Loan people for the privilege of borrowing money
1 House to pay the legal criminals as protection money, an offer that Joe can't refuse.
Joe borrows to buy 1 house, and Joe works to pay off the cost of 3 houses.
Joe won't see an interest crisis so long as inflation keeps going up, and up, and up, and up, in lock step with wages, going up, and up, and up, and up, no crisis, no cause for alarm, accounting is easy, just add zeros.
Joe needs a house, the house cost this much, the savings and loan people get the cost of one house too, and the legal criminals also get the cost of one house, Joe pays for all three.
No problem. Everything is as it should be, things are working fine, Joe keeps working, and Joe doesn't argue over the trivial things like working 30 years to pay for his house, plus the extra 2 houses.
Average Joe, not me, I see the crime in progress, but that is just me."
Bill:
"Can we get back to topic."
Jay:
"Yes, the topic is Reagan."
Joe:
"Please, just to reinforce, before returning to the topic, the point I wish to make here is that the people who earn credit, the people who actually create wealth, should, by any measure, earn a very, very, very low interest rate because they prove, over and over again, their capacity to pay back all the money they borrow, and if they are borrowing from themselves, as the false story is told to them often enough, then why don't they pay themselves back once they earn the cost of the home, plus the cost of a second home, plus the cost of a third home?
"If the average Joe can afford 3 homes, because the average Joe can produce enough wealth to build 3 homes, why can't Joe keep all 3, and the answer that will be dodged here, is the obvious answer that the legal criminals are running a racket, and the legal criminals make Joe work harder so that Joe can afford 1 home while the legal criminals collect the surplus wealth by way of charging high interest rates, enough interest money to pay off the savings and loan people and pay off the people who have the legal license to add to or subtract from the total number of dollars.
"If Joe had the legal power to add to, and subtract from, the legal number of dollars, without all those middle men, they Joe could stimulate the economy by working for his own home, and then working for a home for his 2 kids, and then end up, after 30 years, a retirement in one home, without a mortgage payment, and both of his kids could then have homes without mortgage payments, and those kids could then afford school, and further stimulate the economy, instead of having all Joe's surplus wealth, over 30 years worth, going to the legal criminals who run the legal extortion racket that can be called The Dollar Hegemony, U.S.A Inc. LLC, The FED, or "The Interest Rate Crisis".
"Please go on, I think that the point made above is a point worth making, and worth reinforcing until such time as the victims gain the power required to end the perpetual crime in progress."
The second thing is what economists then called the competition in laxity or the race to the bottom.
Joe:
"Hold on please, I have a few comments on that point."
"The race to the bottom is something. The race can be seen as a crisis by some people, call them the losers. The race can be seen as a bonanza by other people, call them the winners. The point here is that the winners have names and they are the people who are at the end of the paper trail if someone curious wants to find them.
"If the losers want to find them, to find out how better to play the game, so as to become winners next time, then they too can follow the money trail, and find out how that money trail operates.
"The point here is to point out, again, and reinforce, again, the point where the dollar supply is added or subtracted by the people who have the legal license to add or subtract from the dollar supply.
"People can accuse me of doing bad things, typing the same thing over and over again, but people can't convict me of adding trillions to the supply of dollars one day, and then the next day subtracting trillions from the supply of dollars, since I don't have that power, and therefore I can't abuse that power, and if my guilt here, of typing the same thing over and over again, is bad, what do you think will be the result of the abuse of that power to add to and subtract from the total dollar supply, over and over and over and over again?"
"The result is something called a business cycle and the winners win all the way around that cycle, and they do so because they know when it will be going from bust to boom and then back to bust, each time, because they cause it, that is how they know those facts, they cause those facts, over and over and over again, perpetually, on a schedule, a schedule they know, and a schedule that their victims can't know, because if their victims know, then the fraud can't work."
"I have many more comments concerning how the victims are fooled, but I'd rather reinforce the understanding of how the victims can avoid the whole mess."
Bill:
"Can we get back to the topic."
Jay:
"Yes, back to Reagan."
Joe:
"The average Joe can avoid all of that, and this is important, this is the real news here, as the average Joe, and all of those people who constitute the average, regain control over their own capacity to produce surplus wealth. Once the people regain that power they can then figure out how to maintain that power, to keep it, and to defend against criminal abuse of it, and not before regaining it, that is placing the cart before the horse. The real news here is to reinforce the accurate understanding that the criminals have taken the power of spending surplus wealth created by the people and they use that power to perpetuate crime - legal crime.
"It is absurd to spend one more moment discussing the things criminals do as if those criminals were anything other than criminals, unless the motive for such an absurdity is to perpetuate these crimes - forever."
"Please continue, and I have to back up this work up to this point."
So that means that there's no oversight about level of risk whatsoever and no oversight how much backup you have for the loans you have out there.
Joe:
"I have to stop here, again, and point something out, something that may be real news to many people, as it was real news when I first found out about the news I am going to report."
Jay:
"We may never get to the end of this report, but go ahead, this is the Real news, after all."
Joe:
"Competition is the best regulator, and the fact that the regulators fail to regulate when the people hire them to regulate, misses the point entirely.
"The thing that people think is the government isn't the government, it is the legal crime business, and it is run by a monopoly power, a power that destroys competition, because the monopoly power will have no power in the face of competition, and to illustrate this point all that is needed is a few words on what does happen when competition is the force that regulates in reality, real reality, not false reality.
Bill:
"Please do use few words, I'd like to get back to the topic."
Joe:
"If all the average Joe workers out there could log onto the internet from home, or walk into a bank down the street, today, and at this competitive bank the people at that bank have a loan for sale to Joe, and all the average workers like Joe, all the average Jane workers too, anyone wanting a loan, anyone with a proven capacity to pay back every cent of every dollar borrowed..."
Jay:
"Few words, please."
Joe:
"Right.
"Right now, all the average workers, suddenly have a choice, right now, to buy a new home mortgage loan, and the interest rate is zero.
"Since this is now a discussion, one that I am in on, I can ask, at this point, the relevant question: won't that competitive product regulate the banking market right now, and reduce all the costs charged to all the average workers who are now paying, and paying, and paying, for regulation that doesn't regulate, all those average workers are paying for regulation that does the exact opposite, doesn't that one illustrated product, that one form of competition, end the cycle of legal crime from that day, that that competitive product hits the market, onward?"
Bill:
"I'd like to return to the topic."
Jay:
"Yes, the topic is Reagen."
Joe:
"If the motive behind hiring these legal criminals is to get them to regulate themselves, an absurdity, then it is past time to fire them for lack of performance, for a performance record that reads like a "How to commit the perfect crime" manual, and it is past time for someone, anyone, to point this fact out, to be the first, or second the notion, or third, or at least get in the right line, not the wrong one.
"If the motive behind hiring these legal criminals is to get them to perpetuate the business cycle because the employers profit from the business cycle, then by all means keep them in business, and forget about any notions that may compete against such business, because that one business wins by that default methodology.
"Don't ever think thoughts that expose both the single worst legal crime and the peaceful avoidance of most of the legal crimes in progress that result from that one single crime."
Bill:
"The topic?"
Jay:
"Continue."
Joe:
"By all means, continue."
JAY: So do you draw links, then, between this deregulatory culture and today? In other words, are the roots of this crisis to be found in Reagan's legacy?
BLACK: To be fair to Reagan, the roots could be found far more the intellectual roots in the Carter presidency. President Carter had far more substantive deregulation then did President Reagan. Carter famously deregulated large aspects of civil aviation and of trucking.
Joe:
"The missing regulator there is a working Trial by Jury.
"Whenever someone, anywhere, commits fraud, a victim has the power to publicly announce that fact, and set in motion a series of events that end with a decision made by each of 12 jurors unanimously affixing accountability in each case whatsoever.
"Bill Black is complaining about competition - to the bottom. Is he complaining that there isn't any power to avoid being victimized by these competitors as these competitors fight over each other to find the quickest way to commit fraud?
"Competition among people who do not commit fraud isn't the same thing as competition between people who commit fraud.
A = competition to be the more effective criminal fraud
B = competition to offer the highest quality product at the lowest cost?
"Competition B makes competition A mute, incapable, without capacity, profitless. When the highest quality money at the lowest cost is found by way of competition the legal crime money monopoly business doesn't pay.
"Crime doesn't pay, unless the victims pay into it. Is this Real news, or more of the same business as usual?
Jay:
"Perhaps that subject can be reported in another report, this in a report on Reagan."
Bill"
"Can I continue?"
So what happens next is the disaster. It's not that President Reagan kicked off the savings and loan crisis; it's that he made it vastly worse, because savings and loans were recovering from the interest rate crisis as interest rates fell sharply through the 1980s.
Joe:
"Please correct that error."
Bill:
"What error?"
Joe:
"Interest rates didn't just "fall", they were lowered by the people who have the legal power to add and subtract legal dollar from the total money supply, and that isn't a trivial correction, that goes right exactly through the heart of the beast, the evil beast, the cause of all this legal torture, and legal mass murder - not at all trivial."
Bill:
"Who invited this conspiracy theorist nut job into this discussion?"
Jay:
"It is an open forum, you get what you pay for?"
Joe:
"The point can be made very clear with the same hypothetical illustration of how competition works to regulate, and end, a legal money monopoly where the people running the legal money monopoly have the power to raise or lower interest rates - interest rates don't just fall, like rain falls, or like leaves fall off trees in the Fall."
Bill:
"Interest rates were lowered. How about that?"
Joe:
"Thanks"
Bill:
"You are welcome."